Curse

Stileto Switchblade · Jul 07, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Sorry if there is already a thread for this - but you guys have your search disabled all of the time.

So.....

How many of you 12v12 players are sick and tired of these touch rangers?? Personally I don't even do 12v12 anymore so if GW was looking for this to be competitive - they screwed up BIG TIME.

At least with other builds you have a chance to have a good battle. With this build - the only build I've seen that can even come close is a mesmer.

So....what is Anet looking for - all Touch Rangers & Mesmers??? NO THX

So I say....NERF IT!!

You did it to the AoE's for elementalists and to the Minion Master - how about doing something about this one!!

Lets put some competition back into the game!!

MMSDome · Jul 07, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

eh they dont bother me to much, i know its a pain when they kill you it frustrates me to but its a well thought up build that turned into a big cookie cutter. It isnt overused as much as IWAY is in tombs so i dont see it as much of a problem, its fine by me...

Silent Kitty · Jul 07, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Touchers are strong against unsuspecting newbies, but as soon as they play balanced, they suddenly completely drop out of the picture. I have never seen a team, with at least two touchers, win in the top 10 battles. They go up fast in gvg, but drop even faster

Dark Dragon · Jul 07, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

There was a post floating around

basically saying that touch rangers were not overpowered as soon as someone kites, fights long range etc i would link but i don't know how to yet =P

i still find W/* around more than anthing else becasuse they are the most damagin class out there with survivablilty

i say buff the eles

i play ele so this is a bias comment. lol. They should be the most damaging single spell (short time spam) attackers but that will probably bring spiking problems with high dmg spells, so i can see why they don't

going way off topic so i'll stop writing now.

Mystery Tyke · Jul 07, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

hi

im personally a pve player, but i know how pvp works, and, surely, if u cant beat touchers, join em!

or alternatively, they are easily countered. i played my mes in RA and used diversion to ruin a toucher's chances

. Blackout would also work, as would migrane (correct me if im wrong)

Caleb · Jul 07, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Only 45 posts on this topic.

Why don't you use a counter to the build rather than cry for a nerf?

My monk cannot defeat a domination mesmer one vs one, so NERF ALL DOMINATION SKILLS!?"!?!?!one 11one!

Nerfing things is not the answer, learning to counter builds and roll over them is.

Hidden in the Mist · Jul 07, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Wow, never tried a Degen Mesmer/necro or Crippling shot ranger?

Lets Get to Healing · Jul 07, 2006, 09:54 PM // 21:54

No, migraine wouldn't ^^

This is another complainer thread about o no they r overpowered.

Like an IWAY one was born every week. Learn to counter them.

Robin_Anadri · Jul 07, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

I have an entire thread devoted to hunting touch rangers as a Mesmer over in the mesmer forum.

Anyway, this thread will soon be closed or merged, so I'm not gonna bother.

Fluffyx · Jul 07, 2006, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystery Tyke

hi

im personally a pve player, but i know how pvp works, and, surely, if u cant beat touchers, join em!

or alternatively, they are easily countered. i played my mes in RA and used diversion to ruin a toucher's chances

. Blackout would also work, as would migrane (correct me if im wrong)

Yes, those both work. But a touch ranger needs energy and is constatnly using it more than most classes IMO from playing touch rangers and other classes. Even if they do bring OoB its still possible to beat them just by keeping their energy low. People say SS works but I dont think so since they can heal more then the damage it will do. And yes unless its a team of touch rangers that can coordinate a balanced team with a decent monk will usually plow them. Then again its not to hard to call but I've had groups that just split up totally. I really dont think touch is that big of a deal its not like its invincible or even close to it.

The truth itself · Jul 07, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

The problem isn't that they are overpowered, it's just that it is a completely skillless build, and that needs to be fixed.

saphir · Jul 07, 2006, 10:14 PM // 22:14

i usually play as an ss necro w/ spinal shivers, and verata's gaze. if a bunch of touch rangers start showing up to bother you, i bring along backfire.

nothing is funnier than watching a touch ranger kill himself on backfire + spiteful spirit. not sure if reckless haste affects their touch speed, i doubt it.

while the ranger is killing busy themself standing next to the wars w/ SS on them, i go steal a bunch of minions lol

ooh, and if you've got extra energy, it's even funnier watching the ranger stand their bewildered after you throw shivers on them and interrupt their every skill

Thom · Jul 07, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Ensign said it best, a good player will have no problem with a touch ranger since any number of basic tactics can easily disable the build. The problem is that 90% of players in random arena and AB have trouble witht the build. While the build is balanced if the game is played well, it reduces enjoyment for new players therefore the skill needs to be nerfed.

Draining energy seems to be a bad way to attack the build, since with expertise as high as it should be will signficantly reduce all energy costs. While you could beat the build this way, it seems to be the "hard way". The easy way would be a snare and some degen or a spike.

Juicey Shake · Jul 07, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by The truth itself

The problem isn't that they are overpowered, it's just that it is a completely skillless build, and that needs to be fixed.

errr, no, what needs to be fixed is skillless players that can't kite. a touch ranger is a mediocre build and is fine as is, if people would oh, bring a snare? = dead touch ranger. there are more than enough counters for it.

inscribed · Jul 07, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by The truth itself

The problem isn't that they are overpowered, it's just that it is a completely skillless build, and that needs to be fixed.

Oh please, if saying that makes you feel better about losing to them, more power to you. If they are so 'skillless', then make one and own everything. You won't.

Lets Get to Healing · Jul 07, 2006, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Listen, many people arent pissed becuz they are overpowered, they r pissed cuz they are overused. theres a difference

Jetdoc · Jul 07, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin_Anadri

I have an entire thread devoted to hunting touch rangers as a Mesmer over in the mesmer forum.

I posted some thoughts in that thread - I love the idea of a Mantra of Recovery/Diversion mesmer disabling the touch ranger, and then applying snare/degeneration pressure (which Thom describes above).

It would be funny to see a mesmer carry a few snares to disable a group of touch rangers, instead of taking them out one by one.

Anyone used a water elementalist or a trapper to effectively combat touch rangers?

Thom · Jul 07, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

They are overused because it is a simple build which is fairly effective at taking out npcs and newbies. While the build isn't totally skilless it is hardly a high skill build. If your attributes are set right you basically can spam your attacks, dump your conditions and rotate stances. Comparable to a shock ax who isn't expected to spike.

Power doesn't really come from player skill, it comes from unavoidable life stealing and excellent energy management. The natural synergies of the build is really the source of the builds positives.

Yanman.be · Jul 07, 2006, 11:03 PM // 23:03

You know what really is overpowered? A toucher in the hands of an expert. ( Like me ).

But those experts don't play TR's anymore, because people will think they're bad players.

The ones you see know, are the same copycats that used 55's and whammo earlier in the game. ( and some FOTM's too )

makosi · Jul 07, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Not another Toucher thread >_<

I maintain my opinion that it is a design flaw and shouldn't happen. "Expertise reduces the energy cost of Attack Skills, Traps and Preparations". Some might argue that these touch skills are not attack skills because the familiar attack skills are described as 'attacks' (e.g. Punishing shot = Bow attack). Others argue that it is in fact an attack when you bite their neck and steal 65hp from them. That's a fair comment but why doesn't Dodge end when you use these supposed 'attacks'? "Dodge ends if you attack" Also, why don't stances block these 'attacks'? Is it agreeable then that in Guild Wars concepts that these are not attack skills?

Expertise reduces: Attack skills, Traps, Preparations. Touch skills aren't mentioned.

There is definitely a discrepancy between the theory and practice of these skill and Expertise that ArenaNet aren't addressing this (or maybe they will address them in the same update as the storage extension or purchasable character slots on 32nd Julembery 2019)

Yes, they aren't overpowered but that doesn't mean it should be allowed to continue.